MSLT3K/17

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was the sixteenth movie done by MSLT3K. The crew for this session consisted of FigNewton, Fernin, Mr_Scott, and Neutral Bob. Docinsano came in during one part, and left during the next.

[23:47] <@FabriqueAuMexique> Hmm [23:48] <@FabriqueAuMexique> Did they change the ending of this, for the movie? [23:48] <@FabriqueAuMexique> I have a feeling they did, but I don't remember specifically [23:48] <@FabriqueAuMexique> Not_Sure, Mr_Scott? [23:48] <@not_sure> ready [23:48] <@Mr_Scott> Ready [23:48] <@Mr_Scott> on fig's mark [23:49] <@FabriqueAuMexique> It's always on my mark, dumbass [23:49] <@FabriqueAuMexique> OK GO [23:49] <@Mr_Scott> damn annotations [23:50] <@Mr_Scott> ...is that supposed to be racist [23:50] <@Mr_Scott> three black guys all janitors [23:51] <@FabriqueAuMexique> It's the late fifties, I don't think very many black people were working in mental hospitals as doctors [23:51] <@FabriqueAuMexique> The book definitely had some more racist overtones throughout... most of them were worked out of the movie, though [23:52] <@not_sure> your name's too long [23:52] <@Mr_Scott> Oh this is where the simpsons got that cheif sppof fron [23:52] <@Mr_Scott> *spoof �03[23:52] * FabriqueAuMexique is now known as FigNewton [23:52] <@not_sure> <_< [23:52] <@not_sure> there ya go [23:54] <@FigNewton> That native guy was the narrator, in the book [23:54] <@not_sure> interesting [23:54] <@Mr_Scott> asshole [23:54] <@Mr_Scott> the biker looking guy [23:55] <@FigNewton> Randall Patrick MacMurphy [23:55] <@not_sure> only the main character [23:55] <@Mr_Scott> Thank you [23:55] <@Mr_Scott> porno cards [23:55] <@Mr_Scott> how funny �01[23:55] <@Fernin> must be the tv edited version, I could've sworn the actual version showed the cards [23:56] <@not_sure> shame [23:57] <@not_sure> terminado [23:57] <@FigNewton> In the book they left it pretty open ended as to wether or not he was malingering, if I recall [23:57] <@FigNewton> They took out a lot of the question of it in here [23:57] <@FigNewton> Ready? [23:58] <@not_sure> oui �01[23:58] <@Fernin> ready [23:58] <@not_sure> well, hacker's not ready, guess he's gone [23:58] <@FigNewton> lol [23:58] <@FigNewton> ...Mr_Scott? �02[23:58] * @Mr_Scott (~chatzilla@97-117-14-44.slkc.qwest.net) Quit (toronto.on.ca.dal.net swiftco.wa.us.dal.net�) [23:59] <@not_sure> huh... �01[23:59] <@Fernin> wow, a netsplit [23:59] <@FigNewton> Hrm, netsplit [23:59] <@not_sure> maybe if people don't respond immediately it DOES mean they're gone [23:59] <@not_sure> oh Session Time: Thu Feb 04 00:00:00 2010 �06[00:00] * @FigNewton penises around a bi [00:00] <@FigNewton> t [00:00] <@FigNewton> Damn �03[00:03] * Mr_Scott (~chatzilla@97-117-14-44.slkc.qwest.net) has joined #MSLT3K [00:03] <Mr_Scott> Net split? [00:03] <@FigNewton> OKAY, ready? [00:03] <@FigNewton> Yeah [00:03] <Mr_Scott> for part 2? [00:03] <@FigNewton> Yeah �06[00:03] * Mr_Scott rewinds [00:03] <Mr_Scott> yeah [00:03] <@FigNewton> OKAY [00:03] <@FigNewton> Fernin, Not_Sure? [00:03] <Mr_Scott> ahem can i get some ops �03[00:03] * FigNewton sets mode: -o Mr_Scott [00:03] <@not_sure> yeah [00:03] <Mr_Scott> oh you're funny [00:03] <@FigNewton> =:-B �03[00:03] * FigNewton sets mode: +o Mr_Scott [00:03] <@FigNewton> Though it doesn't really matter [00:03] <@FigNewton> Where's Fernin? [00:04] <@Mr_Scott> Maybe he's still in the bridge of limbo [00:04] <@FigNewton> Umm, he didn't split [00:04] <@FigNewton> That was just you [00:04] <@Mr_Scott> ... �01[00:04] <@Fernin> still here [00:04] <@Mr_Scott> aw �01[00:04] <@Fernin> and that was entirely unnecessary, hack [00:04] <@Mr_Scott> I guess �01[00:04] <@Fernin> again with the impatience, calm the fuck down [00:05] <@FigNewton> So [00:05] <@FigNewton> Everyone, ready? [00:05] <@Mr_Scott> yes �01[00:05] <@Fernin> yep [00:05] <@not_sure> k [00:05] <@FigNewton> Ok go! [00:06] <@not_sure> oh shit... you can get sent to an asylum for being an asshole [00:07] <@Mr_Scott> damn pedeophiles [00:07] <@Mr_Scott> lol 15 going on 35 [00:09] <@Mr_Scott> That's smart. bending over in an asylum [00:09] <@FigNewton> Huh? �01[00:09] <@Fernin> this is an asylum, Hack, not the shower in prison [00:10] <@not_sure> hmm [00:10] <@Mr_Scott> Ba-zing [00:11] <@not_sure> Tommy Chong! [00:15] <@not_sure> I think I saw Christopher Lloyd �01[00:15] <@Fernin> that you did [00:15] <@not_sure> he looks weird young [00:15] <@Mr_Scott> finished �01[00:15] <@Fernin> as well as Danny DeVito, and... that cross eyed guy whose name I never remember [00:15] <@FigNewton> Ready? �01[00:15] <@Fernin> yep [00:15] <@not_sure> yeah [00:16] <@Mr_Scott> yeah �01[00:16] <@Fernin> ...Hack? �01[00:16] <@Fernin> ah, k [00:16] <@FigNewton> Okey, go-o! [00:17] <@not_sure> CHANGE PLACES! �01[00:17] <@Fernin> a productive session �01[00:17] <@Fernin> really honed in on Harding's problems [00:18] <@Mr_Scott> put the ball in the hole is an ancient game [00:24] <@Mr_Scott> Is that the girl who plays jackie on that 70's show? [00:24] <@Mr_Scott> the sort nurse [00:25] <@not_sure> the girl who wasn't even born for 15 years? [00:25] <@FigNewton> Yeah, Mila Kunis is far too young to be in this [00:25] <@FigNewton> She does remind me of her, though, definitely �01[00:25] <@Fernin> yeah, this was made in 1975, Hack [00:26] <@Mr_Scott> oh [00:27] <@FigNewton> Ready? �01[00:27] <@Fernin> ready [00:27] <@Mr_Scott> ready [00:27] <@not_sure> yea [00:27] <@FigNewton> Okay, go-o-o! �01[00:31] <@Fernin> Taber seems sane to me, he just seems to be an asshole that likes pushing Harding's buttons �03[00:31] * Neutral_Bob (~chatzilla@66-168-95-82.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #MSLT3K [00:31] <@Mr_Scott> ...hey [00:31] <@Mr_Scott> That was funny [00:32] <@FigNewton> Harding doesn't seem crazy enough to be in a mental hospital [00:33] <@FigNewton> I think the movie did a pretty terrible job of this business �01[00:34] <@Fernin> *pop* Whoops, hernia! [00:34] <@Mr_Scott> heh [00:34] <@Mr_Scott> What exactly is a hernia [00:35] <Neutral_Bob> It's unpleasant. �01[00:35] <@Fernin> it's when a little bit of your small intestines slips out of alignment, pokes out of your stomach or groin �01[00:35] <@Fernin> caused by excessive strain, usually [00:35] <@Mr_Scott> ouch [00:35] <Neutral_Bob> Doesn't it also have the chance to be lethal? [00:35] <Neutral_Bob> My dad has one and it shows. �01[00:36] <@Fernin> it does have that chance, yeah, and it's usually painful as all fuck [00:36] <@FigNewton> Poor Billy Bibbit [00:36] <Neutral_Bob> I always liked Billy. [00:36] <@FigNewton> Yeah, me too [00:36] <@not_sure> EVeryone likes Billy [00:36] <Neutral_Bob> He was my favorite after Bromden and Murphy. [00:36] <Neutral_Bob> It's hard not to. [00:37] <@not_sure> which one is Bromden? �01[00:37] <@Fernin> the chief [00:37] <Neutral_Bob> The silent Indian. [00:37] <@FigNewton> The native guy [00:37] <@not_sure> ah [00:37] <Neutral_Bob> Chief Bromden. [00:37] <@Mr_Scott> ready �01[00:37] <@Fernin> ready for part 5 now [00:37] <@FigNewton> I couldn't sympathize much with Bromden... he's so completely out of it all his perceptions are skewed [00:37] <@FigNewton> Though that lead to some of the best parts of the book [00:37] <@not_sure> yeah [00:38] <@FigNewton> Bob, you ready? [00:38] <Neutral_Bob> Sure. [00:38] <@FigNewton> Okay, goooooo! [00:38] <Neutral_Bob> Ratched... [00:39] <Neutral_Bob> Wow...she's just as evil looking as I pictured her. �01[00:39] <@Fernin> yeah, they did a /damned/ good casting job with everyone [00:39] <Neutral_Bob> That guy with the glasses seems kind of sane. [00:39] <Neutral_Bob> Just a little timid. �01[00:40] <@Fernin> oh, just so you know, Bob, Hacker hasn't read the book or seen this before [00:40] <@FigNewton> Their casting of Harding was totally off from my image [00:40] <Neutral_Bob> Oh! [00:40] <Neutral_Bob> Alright then, I won't spoil anything. [00:41] <@not_sure> classic part [00:41] <Neutral_Bob> It's been ages since I've read the book, I don't remember all the characters. [00:41] <Neutral_Bob> Just watching her makes me hate her all over again. �01[00:41] <@Fernin> heh, just as she's meant to do [00:41] <Neutral_Bob> Yep. [00:41] <Neutral_Bob> This feels...right. �01[00:42] <@Fernin> what's your take on her so far, Hack? [00:42] <@Mr_Scott> The nurse? �01[00:42] <@Fernin> yep, the head nurse [00:42] <Neutral_Bob> Yeah, Ratched. [00:43] <@Mr_Scott> I think she's an ego nazi [00:43] <@Mr_Scott> with a power trip [00:43] <Neutral_Bob> She dehumanizes and mentally castrates them. [00:44] <Neutral_Bob> Now I'm pissed again. These characters really make you sympathize with them. [00:44] <Neutral_Bob> That's the mark of a good movie/book. [00:44] <@FigNewton> Truth [00:44] <@Mr_Scott> He should just turn it on himself �01[00:44] <@Fernin> oh, he does better [00:45] <Neutral_Bob> Indeed. [00:45] <@Mr_Scott> heh, indeed he does �03[00:45] * FigNewton sets mode: +o Neutral_Bob [00:45] <@not_sure> this one best picture, didn't it? pretty sure Nicholson got an Oscar for this, too. [00:45] <@not_sure> won* [00:45] <@Neutral_Bob> Just look at her face...concentrated hatred. [00:46] <@Neutral_Bob> It should've if it didn't. [00:46] <@FigNewton> Naughty word! [00:46] <@Mr_Scott> I dont think this is the TV edit [00:46] <@Neutral_Bob> Those white collar assholes only know how to speak politics. [00:47] <@Neutral_Bob> You just kind of watch them speak directly, like people, and they just look at him like he doesn't make any sense. [00:47] <@Neutral_Bob> *him [00:48] <@Neutral_Bob> Reminds me of high school. I loved reading this book. [00:48] <@Neutral_Bob> I'm ready for part six when everyone else is. [00:49] <@not_sure> yep �01[00:49] <@Fernin> yep, ready [00:49] <@FigNewton> I hope we keep picking up a person every part [00:49] <@Neutral_Bob> That would be cool. �03[00:49] * docinsano (~chatzilla@24-117-141-22.cpe.cableone.net) has joined #MSLT3K [00:49] <@FigNewton> :O [00:49] <@Neutral_Bob> Hey Doc. �01[00:49] <@Fernin> welcome to the party, doc [00:50] <docinsano> sounds spectacular �03[00:50] * FigNewton sets mode: +o docinsano [00:50] <@Neutral_Bob> Everyone ready? [00:50] <@FigNewton> I need to take a piss [00:50] <@FigNewton> Uno momento [00:50] <@Neutral_Bob> Alright. [00:50] <@Neutral_Bob> I'll go get an apple. [00:50] <@docinsano> starting on part six then? [00:50] <@not_sure> wow... this one best picture, director, actor, actress [00:50] <@not_sure> that's really rare [00:50] <@not_sure> won* [00:50] <@not_sure> gah [00:51] <@Neutral_Bob> It earned it from what I can tell. [00:51] <@docinsano> thats a kubrick film isn't it? [00:51] <@not_sure> Silence of the Lambs did that, too [00:51] <@not_sure> I think those are the only 2 films, though [00:51] <@not_sure> Milos Forman [00:52] <@docinsano> i must be retarddeded [00:52] <@FigNewton> Grabbed some pop, too [00:52] <@Neutral_Bob> Got an apple to hold me over. [00:52] <@not_sure> Kubrick never won best picture or director, sadly [00:52] <@docinsano> dang it [00:53] <@FigNewton> Citizen Kane got nominated for every possible category [00:53] <@FigNewton> It only won one, though, if I recall [00:53] <@FigNewton> Anyway, everyone ready? [00:53] <@not_sure> yeah [00:53] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah �01[00:53] <@Fernin> yep [00:53] <@docinsano> yeah [00:53] <@Neutral_Bob> Hacker? [00:53] <@Mr_Scott> ready [00:53] <@Neutral_Bob> Good deal. [00:53] <@FigNewton> OKAY GO [00:54] <@FigNewton> Oh, is this it? [00:54] <@FigNewton> My favourite discrepancy? �01[00:54] <@Fernin> indeed it is [00:54] <@FigNewton> Yep, lol [00:54] <@Mr_Scott> heh [00:54] <@Mr_Scott> I would so do that [00:55] <@FigNewton> Yeesh [00:55] <@FigNewton> Hell of a fall [00:55] <@Neutral_Bob> McMurphy looks like he would blend in perfectly. [00:55] <@Neutral_Bob> HA! [00:55] <@Neutral_Bob> Take that assholes. [00:55] <@docinsano> ah [00:55] <@Neutral_Bob> I loved this part of the book. [00:56] <@docinsano> duck xing [00:56] <@Neutral_Bob> ! [00:56] <@FigNewton> Heh, the book totally did this better [00:56] <@Neutral_Bob> Is that Danny Devito and Christopher Lloyd? [00:56] <@docinsano> it is [00:56] <@not_sure> yes [00:56] <@Neutral_Bob> Damn [00:57] <@Neutral_Bob> That's awesome! [00:57] <@Neutral_Bob> This is a winning cast so far. [00:57] <@FigNewton> Yeah, very good casting [00:57] <@docinsano> oh wait [00:58] <@docinsano> i know another milos forman film i saw [00:58] <@docinsano> i think [00:58] <@docinsano> it was called "Taking off" [00:58] <@Mr_Scott> oh blow to harding's ego �01[00:58] <@Fernin> gotta stick it to Harding whenever you can [00:58] <@Neutral_Bob> That's a very real reaction. I love it. [00:59] <@Neutral_Bob> You don't get some scripted crap, just some panzy too cowardly to dispute his claim. [00:59] <@Neutral_Bob> That's how people act. This doesn't feel fake...I like that. [00:59] <@docinsano> just great. a bunch of nuts on a boat [00:59] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah, I feel happy for them. [01:00] <@Mr_Scott> Reminds you of your last gay party eh doc? [01:00] <@docinsano> har har �01[01:00] <@Fernin> ba-zing �01[01:01] <@Fernin> I saw a Making Of show about this one of the times it was on AMC... or, possibly TMC, I forget which... they said the actors were getting sick off the side of the boat in between scenes, I'm rather glad none of that made it into the film [01:01] <@Neutral_Bob> I've never ridden on a boat long enough to feel sick. [01:01] <@Neutral_Bob> I hope I never have to. [01:01] <@not_sure> I've gotten sick on a boat [01:02] <@FigNewton> I don't think I've ever ridden on a boat �01[01:02] <@Fernin> oh, this part was also largely unscripted, they were just given the fish and allowed to play [01:02] <@FigNewton> Oh, once [01:02] <@FigNewton> Huh [01:02] <@Neutral_Bob> I've never ridden on a train or a plane but I've rode on a few boats. [01:02] <@docinsano> nevr been on an ocean boat [01:02] <@not_sure> I'm getting a little sick watching this, even [01:02] <@FigNewton> I've been on plenty of planes and trains [01:02] <@docinsano> i hate planes [01:03] <@Neutral_Bob> I rode one on the shores of Charleston to get to Ft Sumter. [01:03] <@docinsano> they're just huge air buses [01:03] <@Neutral_Bob> I've always wanted to ride in one just to see how it felt. [01:03] <@FigNewton> Planes are underwhelming [01:03] <@FigNewton> Trains are lovely, though [01:03] <@docinsano> i'd much rather ride in one of those smaller planes [01:03] <@docinsano> or fly my own [01:04] <@Neutral_Bob> A single engine craft would be fun to pilot. [01:04] <@docinsano> hell yeah [01:04] <@Neutral_Bob> It's a shame that I'm afraid of heights. [01:04] <@FigNewton> I'd be far too scared to ride in one, I think [01:04] <@Neutral_Bob> I'd still like to try it at least once [01:04] <@Neutral_Bob> I don't think I could let my cowardice win out on that one. Just to see how it felt you know? [01:05] <@Mr_Scott> I love boating [01:05] <@Mr_Scott> Especially tube wars [01:05] <@FigNewton> My ma gets real scared on the ferris wheel, how she's ridden planes without having a heart attack is beyond me [01:05] <@docinsano> oh shit [01:05] <@Neutral_Bob> ? [01:05] <@FigNewton> So, we all ready? [01:05] <@Mr_Scott> You tow two tubes behind the boat and try to knock the other guys off [01:05] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah. [01:05] <@Neutral_Bob> I am. �01[01:05] <@Fernin> yep [01:05] <@not_sure> uh-huh [01:05] <@docinsano> OK [01:05] <@Mr_Scott> yes [01:05] <@FigNewton> OKAY goo [01:06] <@Neutral_Bob> Boat goes into the water. Sharks in the water... �01[01:06] <@Fernin> "Keep on fishing, guys, I'm gonna go ball this chick" [01:06] <@docinsano> pretty much [01:07] <@Mr_Scott> If I recall right that's why you stopped fishing with fred [01:07] <@docinsano> oh man he just started to bone her [01:07] <@docinsano> and he had to quit [01:07] <@docinsano> must have a serious case of blue balls now [01:08] <@Neutral_Bob> Indeed. [01:08] <@Mr_Scott> dun dun dunnnn [01:09] <@docinsano> woooooo big stinky fish [01:09] <@docinsano> yeah send him back �01[01:10] <@Fernin> note the imagery - they specifically styled Ratched's hair to resemble horns [01:10] <@Neutral_Bob> Good point. [01:10] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah...help him...right. [01:10] <@not_sure> wonder how tall he is... [01:10] <@not_sure> heh [01:11] <@docinsano> what a biznatch [01:11] <@Neutral_Bob> Bromden is supposed to be really tall in the books. [01:11] <@Neutral_Bob> Well, pretty tall anyway. It's been ages since I've read it. [01:11] <@docinsano> these guys are NBA material [01:11] <@Neutral_Bob> Book...not books. [01:11] <@docinsano> patients vs. orderlies [01:11] <@Neutral_Bob> Hustle Danny, Hustle! [01:12] <@Mr_Scott> go cheif [01:13] <@docinsano> and now go whiz in the pool �01[01:13] <@Fernin> anyone for some rust? [01:13] <@docinsano> jail, sucka [01:14] <@docinsano> oh no she called him randall [01:14] <@Neutral_Bob> Sad but true. [01:15] <@docinsano> crazy ass jack nicholson [01:15] <@Mr_Scott> and now the big shocker [01:15] <@docinsano> tbc [01:16] <@FigNewton> Read-y? [01:16] <@Neutral_Bob> They are the biggest masochists in the world. [01:16] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah. [01:16] <@not_sure> give me 2 minutes [01:16] <@docinsano> red e �01[01:16] <@Fernin> ready [01:16] <@docinsano> OK dos minutos �01[01:16] <@Fernin> whatcha think the big shocker is, Hack? [01:17] <@Mr_Scott> I meant to say it earlier when they were revealing that they wern't commited [01:17] <@Neutral_Bob> It only gets rougher from here on out, of course that's the only logical progression. [01:17] <@Mr_Scott> *weren't [01:17] <@docinsano> yeah its all downhill for mac now [01:18] <@Neutral_Bob> She makes them into something less then human, a bunch of subservient dogs with their tails between their legs suckin down pills and taking the advice of that devil woman. �01[01:18] <@Fernin> oh, doc, Hacker hasn't seen this movie or read the book, so nothing too spoiler-ish [01:18] <@Neutral_Bob> They only believe they are sick, and she enables it. [01:18] <@docinsano> ok no spoils [01:18] <@Mr_Scott> She's there mental handicap [01:18] <@not_sure> ok �01[01:18] <@Fernin> Billy's been double teamed, by the nurse and his mother �01[01:19] <@Fernin> you can see his reaction every time his mother is mentioned [01:19] <@docinsano> OK [01:19] <@Neutral_Bob> That's true, of course I'd be afraid of his mother as well. [01:19] <@FigNewton> I remember the parts about his mother were really awful, in the book [01:19] <@Mr_Scott> were on part 8 right? [01:19] <@FigNewton> Wonderfully done [01:19] <@Neutral_Bob> If you ever get the time you should read the book Hacker. [01:19] <@FigNewton> Part Eight [01:19] <@Neutral_Bob> It's totally worth it. [01:19] <@docinsano> it is [01:19] <@FigNewton> It's not long, either [01:19] <@Neutral_Bob> Yup. �01[01:19] <@Fernin> he's in AP English, so he may read it before the year's out [01:19] <@Neutral_Bob> It's a pretty short read. [01:20] <@docinsano> plus its ken kesey [01:20] <@Neutral_Bob> I read it during Freshmen year. [01:20] <@Mr_Scott> Honors not AP [01:20] <@Neutral_Bob> They always chose crap stories like The Pearl and whatnot. [01:20] <@Mr_Scott> Or are they the same thing? �01[01:20] <@Fernin> ah, right, knew it was something like that [01:20] <@docinsano> i gotsta go [01:20] <@docinsano> later all �02[01:20] * @docinsano (~chatzilla@24-117-141-22.cpe.cableone.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221151141]�) [01:20] <@Neutral_Bob> Advanced placement is AP. [01:20] <@FigNewton> We didn't have honours classes in high school, just AP [01:20] <@Neutral_Bob> I think that Honors helps more with college though I never took either. [01:20] <@Mr_Scott> he never leaves time for a "good by doc" [01:21] <@FigNewton> The requirements were exactly the same as those for Honours, though [01:21] <@Neutral_Bob> Weird. [01:21] <@not_sure> there's a difference? [01:21] <@Mr_Scott> so ready then? [01:21] <@Neutral_Bob> I was a lazy bum in highschool. [01:21] <@FigNewton> I think they're the same, just different names �01[01:21] <@Fernin> moving on, we're getting to the fun stuff now [01:21] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah. [01:21] <@Neutral_Bob> I'm ready. [01:21] <@not_sure> any time [01:21] <@FigNewton> We were waiting on NS [01:21] <@FigNewton> Hacker? [01:21] <@Mr_Scott> yes? [01:21] <@FigNewton> Ok, go! [01:22] <@Neutral_Bob> McMurphy speaks the truth. [01:22] <@Neutral_Bob> She's so spitefully smug. [01:22] <@Mr_Scott> She wants his penis �01[01:22] <@Fernin> a fleeting smug look on the nurse's face [01:22] <@not_sure> Mr. Chong? [01:23] <@Mr_Scott> Hitler had nothing on the head nurse [01:23] <@Neutral_Bob> You keep wanting them to speak up and then you see a faint hint of their past humanity and then like a candle in the wind it flickers and fades. [01:24] <@Neutral_Bob> Pretty much. [01:24] <@Mr_Scott> MY CIGARETTES [01:25] <@FigNewton> That's what I was like when the movie was starting and I realized I was out [01:25] <@Mr_Scott> She [01:25] <@Mr_Scott> is [01:25] <@Mr_Scott> a [01:25] <@Mr_Scott> bitch [01:25] <@Neutral_Bob> Exactly. �01[01:25] <@Fernin> you ain't seen nothing yet [01:25] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah... [01:26] <@Mr_Scott> Does she get hurt at all. [01:26] <@Neutral_Bob> No spoilers. �01[01:27] <@Fernin> he's not screaming cause he's crazy, he's just in pain, leave the poor man alone! [01:27] <@Neutral_Bob> The guy has a heart condition if I remember correctly. [01:27] <@Mr_Scott> Go randall [01:27] <@Neutral_Bob> Chief! [01:28] <@Mr_Scott> O_O [01:28] <@Mr_Scott> The cheif doesn't kill him does he [01:28] <@not_sure> i before e [01:28] <@Mr_Scott> *chief [01:28] <@Neutral_Bob> Sorry Hacker, no spoilers. [01:29] <@Neutral_Bob> You really feel sorry for these guys. [01:29] <@not_sure> the chief kills everyone �01[01:29] <@Fernin> the next floor of the ward... downstairs is for the fairly normal people... upstairs... well... [01:29] <@not_sure> sorry for spoiling it [01:29] <@Neutral_Bob> They are going to shove pills down their throat and turn them into mindless drowns. [01:29] <@Neutral_Bob> *drones [01:29] <@FigNewton> I definitely wish they'd at least attempted the Chief's dream sequences [01:29] <@Neutral_Bob> I feel so defeated when I think about it. It really is sad. [01:29] <@Mr_Scott> The moans are almost hypnotic [01:29] <@FigNewton> Those were fucking brilliant [01:29] <@Neutral_Bob> That would've been interesting. [01:32] <@Mr_Scott> heh [01:32] <@FigNewton> Ready-o? [01:32] <@Neutral_Bob> Ready. �01[01:32] <@Fernin> ready [01:32] <@Mr_Scott> ready freddy �01[01:32] <@Fernin> and there ya go, Hack, first of the big reveals [01:32] <@not_sure> yep [01:32] <@FigNewton> Okey dokey go [01:32] <@Mr_Scott> I knew he was going to talk sooner or later [01:32] <@Neutral_Bob> Yup. [01:33] <@not_sure> how'd you know? [01:33] <@Mr_Scott> educated guess [01:33] <@not_sure> so... just because, huh [01:33] <@not_sure> made after the fact �01[01:34] <@Fernin> lay off him, let him focus on the movie [01:35] <@Neutral_Bob> Still joking in the face of all that. [01:35] <@Mr_Scott> plus the way he acted during the basket ball game [01:35] <@Neutral_Bob> He's got balls. [01:35] <@Mr_Scott> proved he wasnt dumb [01:35] <@Mr_Scott> electroshock therapy [01:35] <@not_sure> time for the robotic "relaxation" treatment [01:35] <@Neutral_Bob> Electroconvulsive. [01:36] <@Neutral_Bob> It's basically torture. �01[01:36] <@Fernin> inducing a seizure with electricity �01[01:36] <@Fernin> ...how did they ever think that was beneficial? [01:36] <@Neutral_Bob> They don't do this in mental institutions anymore, and with good reason. [01:36] <@Mr_Scott> What's its purpose? [01:36] <@Neutral_Bob> Same way they thought their other treatments helped. [01:37] <@FigNewton> They don't do that anymore? [01:37] <@FigNewton> Wikipedia disagrees [01:37] <@Neutral_Bob> Really? [01:37] <@Neutral_Bob> I thought that they didn't. [01:37] <@FigNewton> As does the DSM-IV, from my memory [01:37] <@Mr_Scott> What's its purpose? �01[01:37] <@Fernin> I'm just as clueless as Hacker is, I can't think of any reason for it [01:37] <@Mr_Scott> Oh that sly bastard [01:37] <@FigNewton> I don't understand the chemistry behind it [01:37] <@Mr_Scott> I did not see that coming [01:37] <@FigNewton> I know it's pretty controversial, in some circles [01:38] <@FigNewton> Most doctors and professionals agree it helps and does minimal harm [01:38] <@FigNewton> A decent amount of patients say it fucks up your memory and cognitive processes something awful [01:38] <@not_sure> sounds... unconstitutional [01:38] <@Neutral_Bob> Wouldn't doubt it. [01:38] <@Mr_Scott> Both nurses want his penis [01:39] <@FigNewton> Ernest Hemingway said ECT fucked him up pretty bad, actually [01:39] <@FigNewton> They said he was crazy because he thought the FBI had a file on him [01:39] <@Neutral_Bob> I honestly thought they discontinued that style of treatment. [01:39] <@FigNewton> ...But they did �01[01:40] <@Fernin> same here, Bob [01:40] <@Neutral_Bob> I remember hearing about it in psychology....or at least I thought I did.. [01:40] <@FigNewton> It's not as bad as they make it out in most movies [01:40] <@FigNewton> The process itself isn't so terrible, it's just the longterm effects that are debated [01:41] <@Neutral_Bob> Maybe what they do now is a weaker version. [01:41] <@Neutral_Bob> Mental wards way back when were a lot worse then the ones we know now. [01:41] <@Neutral_Bob> Treatment wasn't always humane. [01:41] <@FigNewton> True, but I'm pretty sure ECT's remained the same [01:42] <@FigNewton> It held the same stigma it does now then, though [01:42] <@FigNewton> Kesey wrote this off his own experiences... that was the attitude everyone had toward it, that it was like that [01:42] <@FigNewton> Ready? �01[01:42] <@Fernin> ready [01:42] <@not_sure> si [01:43] <@Neutral_Bob> Yes. [01:43] <@Mr_Scott> ready [01:43] <@FigNewton> Go-o-o-o-o-o! [01:43] <@Mr_Scott> honk honk �01[01:44] <@Fernin> trying to remember... was this movie made before or after The Shining? [01:44] <@Neutral_Bob> Ah, reading the comments section too? [01:44] <@not_sure> I think the Shining was in the 80's [01:44] <@FigNewton> Before �01[01:44] <@Fernin> hehehe, yeah [01:44] <@FigNewton> 1980, if I recall �01[01:45] <@Fernin> I thought he looked familiar [01:45] <@FigNewton> Apparently they didn't start putting the patients under for ECT until the seventies [01:45] <@Neutral_Bob> You're really looking into this huh? �01[01:45] <@Fernin> Fig's a great multitasker [01:46] <@FigNewton> They took the pot party out of the movie, right? �01[01:47] <@Fernin> yeah, just booze at this party [01:47] <@Neutral_Bob> McMurphy is a badass. [01:47] <@Mr_Scott> I'll bet an accident happens and she's hurt [01:47] <@FigNewton> Personally, I think passing joints around a mental ward is a /wonderful/ idea =:-B �01[01:48] <@Fernin> nice how she just happened to not hear him shout, "Aw, shit, the supervisor!" [01:49] <@FigNewton> Hehe [01:50] <@Mr_Scott> I think that would fall under the category of an "oh fuck" moment [01:51] <@Neutral_Bob> Most definitely. �01[01:51] <@Fernin> playtime for the drunken crazies [01:51] <@Neutral_Bob> Wheelchair shots. [01:51] <@Neutral_Bob> It's chunk! [01:51] <@Neutral_Bob> *Chunk [01:51] <@Neutral_Bob> No wait.. [01:51] <@Neutral_Bob> damnit. [01:51] <@Neutral_Bob> I hate how horrible I am with names. [01:52] <@Neutral_Bob> I totally botched that. [01:52] <@Neutral_Bob> I think I'd break that record... [01:53] <@FigNewton> Ready-o? [01:53] <@not_sure> yea �01[01:53] <@Fernin> ready [01:53] <@Neutral_Bob> Ready. [01:53] <@FigNewton> Almost done [01:54] <@Mr_Scott> ready [01:54] <@FigNewton> Goo [01:54] <@Mr_Scott> She gets hurt doesnt she [01:55] <@not_sure> stop asking things [01:55] <@not_sure> no one's spoiling anything :P [01:56] <@FigNewton> Poor Billy Bibbit [01:56] <@Neutral_Bob> Billy... [01:57] <@Neutral_Bob> He really wants to be happy. [01:58] <@FigNewton> That's why he's so easy to sympathize with [01:58] <@FigNewton> He's a good kid who just wants happiness [01:58] <@FigNewton> It's all external things fucking with him [01:58] <@Neutral_Bob> Indeed. [01:58] <@Neutral_Bob> It's like he knows what he wants, he's just too afraid. [01:59] <@FigNewton> I remember getting really, honestly pissed off reading the book when the nurse is pulling that "What would your mother think?" shit [02:00] <@FigNewton> I mean... leave the poor kid alone [02:00] <@FigNewton> Oh the great morning after [02:00] <@Neutral_Bob> I agree. She's a manipulative heartless creature. [02:01] <@Neutral_Bob> No one looks forward to that. �01[02:02] <@Fernin> hehe, "Let her go, Scanlon" �01[02:02] <@Fernin> oh, now that is no way to treat the General [02:04] <@FigNewton> Read-o? [02:04] <@Neutral_Bob> Ready. �01[02:04] <@Fernin> ready [02:04] <@not_sure> da [02:04] <@Mr_Scott> ....yeds [02:04] <@Mr_Scott> yes [02:04] <@FigNewton> Goo! [02:05] <@Mr_Scott> heh [02:05] <@Neutral_Bob> Poor Billy. [02:05] <@Mr_Scott> HA �06[02:05] * @Mr_Scott starts chanting [02:05] <@Mr_Scott> billy billy billy [02:06] <@Neutral_Bob> God I hate that woman. �01[02:06] <@Fernin> gotta love the lack of a stutter [02:06] <@Neutral_Bob> Oh.... [02:06] <@Neutral_Bob> You bitch... [02:06] <@FigNewton> Here's the fucking part [02:07] <@FigNewton> That's the problem with so many institutions [02:07] <@Neutral_Bob> She's the sickness. [02:07] <@FigNewton> It's help the people, but help them under your control [02:07] <@FigNewton> Control going before help [02:07] <@Mr_Scott> That women is a bitch [02:08] <@not_sure> understatement [02:08] <@Neutral_Bob> Shit now I'm angry. [02:08] <@FigNewton> It's that whole climate of keeping the poor bastard like some little kid at his mother's leg all the time [02:08] <@FigNewton> That's all his problem [02:09] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah, and she's certainly not helping matters. [02:09] <@Neutral_Bob> Such emotion... [02:09] <@Neutral_Bob> I really feel for the guy. [02:09] <@FigNewton> She's exerting that control over him [02:09] <@FigNewton> Control over help, even if the problem is a direct result of that control [02:09] <@FigNewton> Someone as neurotic as him would be damned hard to help, but her methods obviously don't work [02:10] <@Neutral_Bob> Damn he's strong. [02:10] <@FigNewton> Breaks your fucking heart [02:10] <@Neutral_Bob> I was dreading this part. [02:10] <@not_sure> yeah... [02:10] <@FigNewton> Me too [02:11] <@FigNewton> I felt literally sick after reading this [02:11] <@Neutral_Bob> Same here. [02:11] <@Neutral_Bob> GO! [02:11] <@Mr_Scott> I kinda want him to kill her [02:11] <@Neutral_Bob> We all do. [02:12] <@Neutral_Bob> You feel that raw hatred. [02:12] <@Mr_Scott> At least he put her in her place [02:12] <@Neutral_Bob> That's the effect of a good movie or book. [02:13] <@Neutral_Bob> Alright... [02:13] <@Neutral_Bob> I think they've skipped a lot of dialogue here.... [02:14] <@FigNewton> Oh shit [02:14] <@FigNewton> Ready? [02:14] <@Neutral_Bob> Damn... �01[02:14] <@Fernin> last part [02:14] <@not_sure> hai [02:14] <@Neutral_Bob> Ready. [02:15] <@Mr_Scott> oui [02:15] <@FigNewton> Go [02:16] <@Neutral_Bob> I've been dreading this part as well.... [02:16] <@FigNewton> They didn't build up to this well enough, I don't think [02:16] <@Neutral_Bob> I agree. [02:16] <@Neutral_Bob> The book has a lot of dialogue that the movie skips. [02:17] <@Mr_Scott> ... [02:17] <@Neutral_Bob> Someone who hasn't read the book may not know what this is. [02:17] <@Mr_Scott> Fern, this was a good movie �01[02:17] <@Fernin> I think Hack has picked up on it [02:17] <@Neutral_Bob> Good. [02:17] <@FigNewton> You should read the book, Hack [02:17] <@FigNewton> It was a lot better in parts [02:17] <@Neutral_Bob> This is still an excellent movie. [02:18] <@FigNewton> Truth [02:18] <@FigNewton> Wonderful movie [02:18] <@Mr_Scott> O_O [02:19] <@Mr_Scott> I had a huch the chief was going to open that thing up [02:21] <@Neutral_Bob> *claps* [02:21] <@FigNewton> One thing the movie definitely didn't get across like the book did, the chief being fairly crazy [02:21] <@not_sure> It's over! [02:21] <@FigNewton> Good movie [02:21] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah, but I still like the chief quite a lot. [02:21] <@Mr_Scott> The ending was great [02:22] <@FigNewton> I think he's a lot more tragic of a character in the book [02:22] <@Neutral_Bob> In case you didn't catch on Hacker McMurphy was lobotomized. [02:22] <@Mr_Scott> What exactly does that mean? [02:22] <@FigNewton> They cut out a part of the front end of your brain [02:22] <@Neutral_Bob> They take out a part of your frontal lobe. [02:22] <@Mr_Scott> I knew the fucked with his brain somehow but i didnt know how [02:23] <@Neutral_Bob> Normally it was thought to make a person calmer but most of the time it turned them into a vegetable. [02:23] <@Neutral_Bob> She took out his soul basically. [02:23] <@Neutral_Bob> Every aspect of his personality was gone. [02:23] <@Neutral_Bob> He was basically an empty shell. [02:23] <@Mr_Scott> I think you guys all enjoyed watching me react to most of this [02:23] <@FigNewton> The dangers of malingering [02:24] <@Neutral_Bob> We did. It's good to see someone else's reactions to such a movie. [02:24] <@FigNewton> Yeah, absolutely [02:25] <@Neutral_Bob> In the book their is a lot more dialogue from the higher ups and conversations between them and Nurse Ratched. [02:25] <@FigNewton> An interesting take I've heard on the movie a few times is that McMurphy was a bad guy [02:25] <@Neutral_Bob> I can't really picture that but perhaps it's possible. [02:25] <@Neutral_Bob> From my viewpoint though I admired his gusto. [02:25] <@FigNewton> Taking that he completely disrupted the therapy the nurse had going, even if some of her methods were bad [02:26] <@FigNewton> The fact that if it weren't for him firing the patients up, Billy Bibbit wouldn't have died [02:26] <@Neutral_Bob> Keep in mind that she had the few patients who spoke out against her lobotomized. [02:26] <@FigNewton> I mean, the nurse caused that directly, but it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't interfered [02:26] <@FigNewton> Especially if you take the view that he was just pretending to be psychotic to get out of jail [02:26] <@Mr_Scott> Do you approve of what the Chief did? [02:26] <@Neutral_Bob> I did. [02:27] <@FigNewton> And even inspiring the Chief to take off like that, in the book it got it quite clear that he was extremely sick [02:27] <@Neutral_Bob> Maybe I'm not an orthodoz guy though. [02:27] <@FigNewton> Him being out is probably not a good thing [02:27] <@FigNewton> I approve, Hacker [02:27] <@Neutral_Bob> *orthodox. [02:27] <@Neutral_Bob> I don't remember all that he did. [02:27] <@Mr_Scott> GLad I'm not the only one �01[02:27] <@Fernin> the guys in the ward had an idolized view of McMurphy, seeing him like that would've crushed all of them [02:27] <@Neutral_Bob> That kind of sterile speech bothers me immensely. [02:28] <@Neutral_Bob> In the book they pretend like he's an imposter. [02:28] <@Neutral_Bob> Like Ratched just sent somebody in who looked like him. They pretend like McMurphy is out there somewhere going on grand adventures and whatnot. If I remember correctly. [02:28] <@FigNewton> Yeah, I remember that, now [02:29] <@Mr_Scott> I'm not even sure if i can think of one time a lobotomy would be useful [02:29] <@FigNewton> I remember the bit about how MacMurphy would have wanted less than anything to be set as an example like that, of what happens if you fuck with her [02:29] <@Neutral_Bob> Maybe he did interfere with their treatment but they would've never been truly cured had she continued anyway. [02:29] <@FigNewton> I don't think they do lobotomies, anymore [02:29] <@Mr_Scott> Unless you had a mass psychopath who killed everyone within three feet of him [02:29] <@Neutral_Bob> I don't think they do. [02:29] <@Neutral_Bob> Exactly. [02:29] <@FigNewton> True, but they could've hung in limbo like that [02:30] <@FigNewton> Thanks to McMurphy, a psychopath was let out, and a neurotic kid killed himself [02:30] <@FigNewton> (I'm playing devil's advocate) [02:30] <@Neutral_Bob> You do a good job. [02:31] <@Neutral_Bob> I'm just not that kind of guy though. I mean when you live like that it seems like you're not really living. [02:31] <@Neutral_Bob> When I read about the guys in line to take their pills I noticed how defeated it all felt you know? [02:31] <@Mr_Scott> The nurse kind of helped with that kid killing himself [02:32] <@FigNewton> Absolutely �01[02:32] <@Fernin> she led directly to it [02:32] <@Neutral_Bob> Like the moment they swallowed those pills they'd become subservient, helpless fools happy to continue that cycle. [02:32] <@FigNewton> She directly led to it [02:32] <@FigNewton> lol �01[02:32] <@Fernin> ha [02:32] <@Neutral_Bob> That always bothers me. [02:32] <@FigNewton> But McMurphy set the stage where she /could/ lead him to do that [02:32] <@Mr_Scott> more proof that Fig is just an alternate personality of fernin [02:32] <@Mr_Scott> *Fernin �01[02:32] <@Fernin> we do do that fairly often, Fig :3 [02:33] <@Neutral_Bob> Reading about how people lose a battle is one thing, to see them slowly lose themselves feels worse to me. [02:33] <@FigNewton> Again, someone might argue, it was her actions and his mother's that led him to be unwell enough that he was there in the first place [02:33] <@FigNewton> Heh, truth, Fern [02:33] <@FigNewton> I think you can toss the ball back and forth pretty much infinitely [02:33] <@FigNewton> That's the fun of debating things that lie entirely in shades of grey :D [02:33] <@Neutral_Bob> You think having Neutral in my name would make me an expert on that subject. [02:33] <@FigNewton> lol [02:34] <@Mr_Scott> I do like the ending [02:34] <@Neutral_Bob> I do too. [02:34] <@FigNewton> Really, I'd love to lead an English class on this book [02:34] <@Mr_Scott> How the Chief ran off [02:34] <@Mr_Scott> It fitted. [02:34] <@Neutral_Bob> As fucked up as Bromden is I'm still glad he got out. [02:34] <@FigNewton> I mean, hell, you could do a full study just on Billy Bibbit [02:34] <@FigNewton> It fit, Hacker [02:34] <@Mr_Scott> Thank you [02:34] <@Neutral_Bob> That would be a good idea. Of course I'd like to see a lot of books read in school. [02:35] <@FigNewton> I don't know, I don't really like Bromden getting out [02:35] <@Mr_Scott> It's hard to beleove I'm in an honors english class isn't it [02:35] <@Neutral_Bob> I'd like to see more teachers cover Confederacy of Dunces. [02:35] <@Mr_Scott> *beleive [02:35] <@Mr_Scott> Oh fuck it [02:35] <@FigNewton> I mean, he's seriously unwell. It's not like he'll go off and be happy out in the world [02:35] <@FigNewton> Remember that one scene in the book where he crawls into the painting? [02:35] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah, but that's why they cut the movie off their. [02:35] <@FigNewton> Is that the type of person who could honestly take care of themself? [02:35] <@Neutral_Bob> Even though it's fiction based in reality it's still escapist literature. [02:36] <@Neutral_Bob> *there [02:36] <@FigNewton> I think with fiction so well formed, it takes on a pretty vivid reality, though [02:36] <@FigNewton> You can't help but imagine what happens next �01[02:36] <@Fernin> isn't there one scene in the book where Bromden dreams he's a fly on the wall of a meeting? [02:36] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah...but I kind of like it that way. [02:36] <@Neutral_Bob> I'm not really one to argue, I just like what I like. ^^; [02:36] <@FigNewton> Yeah, I think so [02:37] <@Neutral_Bob> Nurse Ratched shows a strong desire to repress and control McMurphy. [02:37] <@FigNewton> McMurphy shows a strong desire to disrupt and defy Nurse Ratched [02:37] <@Neutral_Bob> I also remember the Catholic nurse who detested most of the patients. Or at the very least McMurphy. [02:37] <@Neutral_Bob> They are good opposites. [02:38] <@FigNewton> Yeah [02:38] <@FigNewton> I don't think either one's entirely good or bad, really [02:38] <@FigNewton> It's all shades of grey [02:38] <@Neutral_Bob> Well I'd disagree however that's only because I hate people like Ratched. [02:39] <@FigNewton> The nurse represents a more traditional working of things,of the ill requiring control and authority to become better, whereas McMurphy represents the far left view that people are better to just be and live [02:39] <@Neutral_Bob> The desire to repress others to the point of inhuman treatment just pisses me off. [02:39] <@FigNewton> I agree with that, but measured control has certainly worked in the past [02:39] <@FigNewton> It's indeniable, it makes people better [02:39] <@FigNewton> Or at least, better able to conform to what society requires of them [02:39] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah but if you recall she also shows a desire to give McMurphy a lobotomy even after she acknowledges that he's not sick. [02:39] <@FigNewton> Wether they are actually better off for it is certainly debatable [02:40] <@Neutral_Bob> Some of her methods may have worked however she pushes it too far. [02:40] <@Mr_Scott> So, whos adding this to the wiki [02:40] <@Mr_Scott> not it [02:40] <@FigNewton> True, but that just goes with the old world belief that treatment cannot occur without control [02:40] <@FigNewton> Hush, Hacker [02:40] <@FigNewton> We're discussing [02:40] <@Neutral_Bob> Perhaps, but she just pisses me off. Sorry... I really can't think of a come back to that. �01[02:40] <@Fernin> I've got it mostly setup, I'm just waiting until the discussion ends to put it up [02:41] <@Neutral_Bob> The way she does it is just...wrong. [02:41] <@FigNewton> Some of her methods are certainly more severe than I approve of, but while her far end may be harmful, McMurphy's far left doesn't offer much chance for recovery, I don't think [02:41] <@FigNewton> I agree she's wrong, but I also believe McMurphy's wrong... [02:41] <@Neutral_Bob> That's true however McMuprhy seems to have more soul to it. [02:42] <@Neutral_Bob> McMurphy is certainly not all out for them. [02:42] <@FigNewton> It's like in Turgenev's /Fathers and Sons/ [02:42] <@FigNewton> They're both extremes, they're both wrong to a degree [02:42] <@FigNewton> Pick which you agree with more [02:42] <@Neutral_Bob> It's shown more in the book how he mostly wants to look out for himself. [02:42] <@Neutral_Bob> I agree with McMurphy. [02:42] <@Neutral_Bob> Despite his actions he shows more humanity. [02:42] <@FigNewton> I agree with that [02:43] <@FigNewton> I just don't think the humanity he offers fully outweighs the harm he causes [02:43] <@Neutral_Bob> Control is one thing but the sterility in her speech and manner seem to reveal a cure to bend the patients to the will of society. [02:43] <@Neutral_Bob> Individuality is lost and therefore they aren't really cured. [02:43] <@FigNewton> I think while the nurse clearly takes it too far, measured control leads to people getting better [02:43] <@FigNewton> Which I think leads to a bit of an ironic point �01[02:43] <@Fernin> she was right in a lot of things in the movie, like the music and the schedule for the patients [02:43] <@Neutral_Bob> Her type of control would help them to fit into society, they'd never be truly free of their own personal demons, that's what I think anyway. [02:44] <@Neutral_Bob> You could make Billy fit into a work place but he'd never be free of his mother or able to express his own desires. [02:44] <@Neutral_Bob> He wouldn't know how. �01[02:44] <@Fernin> he'd never lose that stutter, either [02:44] <@Neutral_Bob> Exactly. �01[02:44] <@Fernin> I really loved how he lost it in those few moments he actually had confidence [02:44] <@Neutral_Bob> It's like fixing something with crazy glue. [02:44] <@FigNewton> Harding defended her a lot in the book, that she was there to make them better, and as a voluntary patient, he'd left society to make himself better where he probably could've continued in the real world. He stopped instead to lick his wounds and heal the best way he knew how [02:44] <@Neutral_Bob> Sure it looks alright but it'll never truly work the same way. [02:45] <@FigNewton> Maybe that kind of healing wouldn't have done him any good, but pushing forward would've left him just as ill, which seems to be more of McMurphy's philosophy [02:45] <@Neutral_Bob> Seems like a catch 22. [02:45] <@FigNewton> Exactly [02:45] <@Neutral_Bob> Being the aggressive douche I am I'd probably take McMurphy [02:45] <@Neutral_Bob> 's "No guts, no glory" attitude. [02:46] <@Neutral_Bob> Damn enter key. [02:46] <@FigNewton> Heh [02:46] <@Neutral_Bob> I can't stand to say uncle, screw that. [02:46] <@FigNewton> Basically, I think the nurse's methods lead to more of a glossing over of the illness. Not really fixing anything, but just correcting enough you can stand on it [02:46] <@Neutral_Bob> If I can't win I'll lose as magnificently as possible. [02:46] <@Neutral_Bob> I think that you're right. [02:47] <@Neutral_Bob> In the end the outcome weighs on the one in control [02:47] <@Neutral_Bob> *. [02:47] <@FigNewton> While that doesn't seem like much of a solution, just pushing on and living doesn't seem very good, either [02:47] <@Neutral_Bob> Yeah... [02:47] <@Neutral_Bob> How about you Fig. [02:47] <@Neutral_Bob> Which path would you take? [02:47] <@FigNewton> Obviously the life they had led to the situation they were in, the same stresses would still be there, and the illness would only get worse [02:48] <@FigNewton> Hmm... the million dollar question [02:48] <@FigNewton> I think out of the two, I'd probably lean toward the nurse's view, I think [02:48] <@FigNewton> Definitely not to that level, I mean [02:48] <@Neutral_Bob> Exactly. [02:49] <@Neutral_Bob> If you had to choose one of the extremes which one would it be? [02:49] <@FigNewton> Hers still seems better for the patients, though [02:49] <@Neutral_Bob> No middle ground. We all would like to have a perfect system, but with those two being the only choices which would you choose. [02:49] <@Neutral_Bob> *? [02:49] <@Neutral_Bob> I wouldn't say better exactly. [02:49] <@Neutral_Bob> Certainly safer. [02:49] <@FigNewton> I mean, maybe they weren't entirely getting better, but they were getting so they could function [02:49] <@FigNewton> And isn't that something? [02:50] <@FigNewton> I think a measured loss of freedoms can be a good thing in situations like that, where it can benefit the patient [02:50] <@Neutral_Bob> Not if you aren't living. Functioning isn't the same as being in control of your own life and realizing that you are the only one who can change things. [02:50] <@Neutral_Bob> The only patients I didn't worry about were those so bad that they had to stay in beds all day. [02:51] <@Neutral_Bob> Her treatment works fine on those who are out of their mind to the extent that all you can do is change the bedpans and whatnot. [02:51] <@Neutral_Bob> Those who still have some iota of awareness however still suffered. [02:52] <@Neutral_Bob> Maybe some of them could've been cured by realizing that they had the power to change their lives and maybe some of them would've ended up worse. [02:52] <@FigNewton> Maybe Billy wouldn't have gotten any better, had he stayed there. Hell, he almost definitely wouldn't have, staying under her and his mother's thumbs like that, but he certainly wouldn't have gotten any better pushing through regular living [02:52] <@Neutral_Bob> It's risky, certainly more risky then Ratcheds. [02:52] <@FigNewton> Life is hard, and stresses like that constantly on a Billy Bibbit would've had him dead as the Nurse left him [02:52] <@Neutral_Bob> Away from his mother and Ratched he seemed to function perfectly. �01[02:52] <@Fernin> going past Billy... what do you think of the other patients? [02:53] <@FigNewton> Function better, but not being better [02:53] <@FigNewton> It's the same argument we touched on earlier [02:53] <@FigNewton> The same deep rooted problems would be there �01[02:53] <@Fernin> I can't even say what was wrong with some of them [02:53] <@Neutral_Bob> I remember one patient whose name I forget... [02:53] <@Neutral_Bob> The one who only cursed and mumbled. [02:53] <@FigNewton> Martini, how about? [02:53] <@Neutral_Bob> Then at one point he says something like "I'VE BEEN DEAD FOR 35 years!" �01[02:53] <@Fernin> Cheswick has obvious problems, and Martini only seems to have a tenuous grasp on reality [02:54] <@Neutral_Bob> Then he just slumps back down, speaking out for the final time. �01[02:54] <@Fernin> but Taber and Harding both seem fine... I always forget that Taber was one of the committed patients [02:54] <@FigNewton> Yeah, Taber just seemed like an asshole [02:54] <@FigNewton> lol [02:55] <@FigNewton> Harding I think is the representation of the more modern day view on mental illness [02:55] <@Neutral_Bob> I don't know...they just seemed to exist in fear. [02:55] <@FigNewton> That it doesn't matter if you can function, that it's best to sit back and lick your wounds, rather than ignore them [02:55] <@Neutral_Bob> I don't like that although I know little on the subject I just think that perhaps the approach could've been less fear driven. [02:56] <@FigNewton> I agree [02:56] <@Neutral_Bob> When you heard those who are mentally ill through fear of two rather mean and calloused guards, a hateful catholic woman, and promises of punishment for those who express disdain for such treatment then perhaps you've crossed the line. [02:56] <@Neutral_Bob> *herd [02:57] <@Neutral_Bob> Damn my spelling is off tonight. [02:57] <@Neutral_Bob> I'm really hungry too. [02:57] <@not_sure> night �02[02:57] * @not_sure (~chatzilla@cpe-174-106-021-222.ec.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]�) [02:57] <@FigNewton> Night [02:57] <@FigNewton> Damn [02:57] <@Neutral_Bob> Night...? [02:58] <@FigNewton> Hmm... [02:58] <@Neutral_Bob> On the other hand getting them riled up like McMurphy did probably didn't help either at least they felt human again. [02:58] <@Neutral_Bob> It's been said before, it's just shades of gray. [02:58] <@Neutral_Bob> You can puzzle it out all you like but in the end the story is simply a story, the side you take is left up to you. [02:59] <@FigNewton> I think that's the root of it. It's either being treated like something less than people, but healing, even if only on the surface, or getting to really live, but almost definitely getting worse, mentally [02:59] <@FigNewton> Well said, Bob [02:59] <@Neutral_Bob> Thank you. [02:59] <@Neutral_Bob> This is why I like stories like this. [02:59] <@Neutral_Bob> Good stuff. [02:59] <@Neutral_Bob> Something that makes you think. [02:59] <@FigNewton> Yeah, I love stories you can really chew on like this �01[03:00] <@Fernin> definitely [03:00] <@Neutral_Bob> Makes me want to read Confederacy of Dunces and Hitchhikers Guide all over again. [03:00] <@FigNewton> I haven't read either [03:00] <@Neutral_Bob> They're both wonderful. [03:01] <@FigNewton> I think I've had both reccomended me a few times [03:01] <@Neutral_Bob> Confederacy of Dunces is awesome, it's a shame that John K. Toole killed himself. [03:01] <@Neutral_Bob> They are worth a read. [03:01] <@Neutral_Bob> Not average stories by any means. [03:01] <@Neutral_Bob> Hitchhikers Guide especially so. [03:01] <@FigNewton> Hey Hacker? [03:02] <@Neutral_Bob> Those who don't enjoy Hitchhikers guide typically try to reason it out too much. [03:02] <@FigNewton> I'll definitely look out for them [03:02] <@Neutral_Bob> Good idea. And with that I think I'm going to go get some food. [03:02] <@Neutral_Bob> I'll be back in a little while guys. [03:02] <@FigNewton> Woo! [03:02] <@Neutral_Bob> That was an excellent movie. �01[03:03] <@Fernin> one sec, Bob [03:03] <@FigNewton> And an excellent discussion [03:03] <@Neutral_Bob> Alright. [03:03] <@Neutral_Bob> Agreed. �01[03:03] <@Fernin> were you one of the folks who liked the Hitchhiker's Guide movie? �01[03:03] <@Fernin> I loved both the book and the movie [03:03] <@Neutral_Bob> I don't think so... [03:03] <@Neutral_Bob> Way too short. �02[03:03] * @Mr_Scott (~chatzilla@97-117-14-44.slkc.qwest.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out�) [03:03] <@Neutral_Bob> Their is so much more to the series then that I think. �01[03:03] <@Fernin> heh, this is true [03:03] <@Neutral_Bob> You'd have to make multiple movies. [03:03] <@Neutral_Bob> Way too many jokes left untouched. [03:04] <@Neutral_Bob> And that is just in that one book alone. �01[03:04] <@Fernin> well, it was never intended to be a one to one translation �01[03:04] <@Fernin> like the radio to book, a lot of things got changed [03:04] <@Neutral_Bob> That's true. [03:04] <@Neutral_Bob> Speaking of which I never got to read the radio scripts. [03:04] <@Neutral_Bob> Can you find them anywhere? �01[03:05] <@Fernin> hrm, no clue, never looked for them [03:05] <@Neutral_Bob> I probably should. [03:05] <@Neutral_Bob> I have all the books. �01[03:05] <@Fernin> I'd imagine with a bit of digging, you should be able to, you can find damn near anything these days [03:05] <@Neutral_Bob> That's true. [03:05] <@Neutral_Bob> I'm going to look into it. [03:05] <@Neutral_Bob> It'll probably add a whole slew of new material.